“Eddington” had its world premiere at the 2025 Cannes Film Festival where it received mixed reviews for its story of the fictional town of Eddington, New Mexico, set during 2020, where a rivalry between Sheriff Joe Cross (Joaquin Phoenix) and Mayor Ted Garcia (Pedro Pascal) reaches a combustible state of political and social turmoil caused by the COVID-19 pandemic. Director and writer, Ari Aster, the masterful filmmaker behind films such as “Hereditary,” “Midsommar” and “Beau Is Afraid” is not unfamiliar with this kind of polarizing response to his provocative films and in fact, he welcomes the debate, discussion and reflection in hopes that his work will bring us closer together during a time where we’re more divided than ever before. Aster and Academy Award-winning star Joaquin Phoenix were kind enough to speak with us about their work and experiences making the film, which you can listen to below (in the case of Aster, you can watch my interview with him, and Joaquin’s interview has been transcribed for your reading pleasure). Please be sure to check out the film, which is now playing in theaters nationwide from A24. Thank you, and enjoy!
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Joaquin Phoenix. This is a huge pleasure for me. I am a massive fan of yours, having been so for many years. I want to thank you for taking the time to discuss “Eddington.”
No, thank you.
Coming off of “Beau Is Afraid” and your first collaboration with Ari Aster, I have to imagine that there is a deep level of trust between the two of you, and I know that you gravitate towards directors who have a strong vision for their films. What did you hope to accomplish on the second go around here, partnering with Aster in that relationship?
I guess in some ways, like the value of working with somebody again is that, yes, there’s this trust and there’s this familiarity. The danger of that is that you like each other, and you let each other off the hook. And what I would, what I always hope for, is that while there is a trust, I would also hope that there is still some distrust. There was still a part of me that wanted him to be dissatisfied with me. I want him to like, want more, and to feel like he knows me well enough that he knows that there, that I still have something more to offer, and there’s a different way that I can approach the moment. And so I feel like Ari has that kind of obsession as much as I do. I would call him a friend. I think that when we’re working, his needs for me as an actor would outweigh any friendship, and that would be important to me.
Sure. I can understand that. And, speaking of understanding…the last three characters that you’ve played, Bo Wasserman (“Beau Is Afraid“), Napoleon Bonaparte (“Napoleon“), and revisiting Arthur Fleck (“Joker” & “Joker: Folie à Deux“)…I can see a degree of humanity in all three of these characters, with even empathy and sympathy in some cases, which I feel for each of them. Joe Cross is a character who presented me with a significant challenge. I think he’s one of, if not near the top of the list of some of the most despicable characters that you’ve ever played. What did you latch onto specifically with this character, even if it was a very tiny piece of humanity in him that you were able to identify?
Yeah, I mean that is something I did not allow myself to feel that way. That would just work against everything I want to do as an actor. What was important for me was to find out in what ways I identify with him or if he reminds me of certain people. My father, or someone I knew when I was young, or is there some way I can care about him? And the truth is, I think that he shares in something that we all do, which is that he’s losing. One thing that we all, whether we’re aware of it or not, desperately want and need is connection and love, right? I know…You hear that and think, “Whatever. Fuck you. Connection and love.” But in some ways, there’s truth to that, right? The most basic purpose of life is to procreate. And I’m not saying the meaning, but the purpose. And we opened with this character who’s like watching a video, saying, “How do you convince your partner to have a child?” And that just broke my heart. I could sense this deep longing in him, and he was feeling like the thing he thought he could count on was deteriorating and falling away. And it’s a kind of human reaction when we’re losing control of things that we try to control what we can, right? And so, suddenly, his motivation for not wearing a mask wasn’t political to me; that’s not how I approached it. I approached it just like he’s just trying to control some part of his life because the one part that’s meaningful to him, which is his relationship with his wife, is coming undone.
Yeah. I like what you said there because I’ve heard Aster talk about how he wants people to engage, not just with this time, but to use it as a means to try to reengage with each other, rediscover our collective humanity, because of how broken it seems we are, not even so much politically. Still, just as a human species, it’s like we’ve lost the ability to empathize with one another on really anything. Do you believe that there is still hope for that, or are we just too far gone?
No, of course, there’s always hope.
Yeah.
You can’t say we’re too far gone, ’cause then you are. Right? So yeah, I just believe that there’s hope, but what the fuck do I know? I still feel the value of that connection in my personal life. And I know that. I see the value of it, and it is something to strive for. And if we’re going to lose that battle, well, let’s go down fighting. Just as we fight for our humanity and our connection, and sometimes that’s part of it. It’s how we relate to ourselves and how we find humor in some of the ways we’ve behaved, such as the absurdity of things we’ve done, and give ourselves a little bit of a laugh at ourselves. I think that’s something this film does exceptionally well.
Yeah.
I recognized so much of myself and the people I know are reflected in many of these characters, and it allowed me to laugh at myself and then reevaluate my behavior. Now people around me misbehaved, and there are some big, heady ideas in here, but it’s also just fucking entertaining. There’s something enjoyable about this, and it allows us to examine what we all went through collectively differently, with some distance from it.
I agree with you, and I like what you’re saying about the absurdity, too. You’re at the top of the call sheet, but you’re having fun working with all these great actors. Emma Stone, Austin Butler, Pedro Pascal, the list goes on, for this film. What was, for you, the most fun day on set? Was it one where many of the cast members were gathered together? Or was it something more specific than that?
Oh man, that’s…That’s, fuck! Oh man. There are so many. I really loved working with Pedro. Here’s the thing: it was a different experience for me while we were shooting, because I essentially worked with Michael and Luke, who are deputies in the sheriff’s office, and we started filming with them. And so it was like a week of just working with them, and there was something enjoyable about figuring out that trio’s dynamic. That was great. Then Pedro came in and it was like, “ah, yes, this part of the film!” and it’s like “THIS IS THE FILM” and this is so important. I’ve just spent the last few weeks thinking that this movie is about three guys in a sheriff’s office. Now I realize this world is getting bigger. Then Emma came in, and with each new character who came into work for a couple of weeks, we expanded the world and the story, and it was a lot of fun. I must say that I think I laughed a great deal in this scene with Austin, Emma, and Deidre, where Butler’s character came in, and we were shooting nights. And there’s something just so absurd about his character and this meeting between an older sheriff who’s very much grounded in the old world and this new, young, cultish type person who’s very much in the new digital age, and this woman who is in the middle of them. And there was just something about that dynamic that had been set up that was fun to explore. And there’s something about that. I don’t know. That’s just sticking out to me.
Absolutely. And to wrap things up here and tie it back to my opening question, is there another filmmaker that you’ve worked with before who you haven’t had the chance to reunite with that you would love if they called you up, to jump on that opportunity?
Honestly, I will answer you that I don’t think there’s a filmmaker that I’ve worked with that I wouldn’t want to work with again.
Okay. Sure. Totally. I love that ’cause you’ve worked with some of the greats and you’ve given us some of the all-time great performances. As I mentioned, I’m a huge fan of your work, and I appreciate that you’re never afraid to tackle complex characters, especially one like Joe Cross. So thank you, Joaquin, and thank you for the time here.
Thank you. I appreciate it. Have a great day.
You too.
Bye.
“Eddington” is now playing in theaters from A24
You can follow Matt and hear more of his thoughts on the Oscars and Film on X @NextBestPicture
