In discussing their approach to producing the 97th Academy Awards, the pair was quick to praise O’Brien’s first stint as Oscars host. “He is the real deal when it comes to commitment and putting it all out there,” Mullan says. “So, as soon as we had our first meeting, it was such a joy. He just walks that tightrope so well of humor and heart, wit and warmth. We just lucked out.” The show faced an uphill battle, though, as wildfires ravaged Southern California at the start of the year. When asked whether they ever seriously considered canceling the show, Kapoor emphatically says no. “Obviously, we were monitoring it, and we had a little bit of time. For us to delay the show or take away people’s income, and how we support this city, was not necessarily ever going to be a good thing. So, as producers, we would always push to do that in the most respectful way.”

In their approach to the show, some choices were well-received, like their opening ode to Los Angeles featuring Cynthia Erivo and Ariana Grande, while some faced a bit more criticism, like not featuring performances from the Best Original Song nominees. “I think it’s always a gift to be able to try new things,” Raj says in defense of that decision. “And, yeah, sometimes you get criticized for it, but sometimes they’re accepted very widely. But one of the joys of making television is that you have to take risks and you have to try some new things.”

In an exclusive conversation with Daniel Howat from Next Best Picture, Raj Kapoor and Katy Mullan discuss their approach to producing “The Oscars,” honoring the crafts behind the films, and the challenge of the time crunch. Please listen to their conversation on the Next Best Picture podcast, or read the transcribed interview below.

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Daniel Howat: As a lifelong Oscars watcher, I’m thrilled to speak with you both about producing the 97th Academy Awards. You both produced the last two Oscars together and Raj, you’ve produced multiple Oscars before that. So, this isn’t the first go-around for either of you. Even though the shows have a general structure, I’m sure it feels like a new beast every time. What were your initial conversations like with the Academy and ABC for producing the 97th Oscars this time around?

Raj Kapoor: We started very early. I think our first meeting was at the end of May last year. And it’s been a really great cycle. We bring everybody together from the Academy side, from ABC, from the production team, and we start ideating. We start thinking about what some of our themes are going to be and what we want people to feel. We start working on all the designs of the show, from the production design to key art to just ideas of socials. We start looking at every single element of the show: how it flows, what worked, what needed improvement, what we loved, and what we didn’t like so much. That time is really a gift to us. We love having as much time as we can, even before we know what some of the movies are. When the movies start coming out, Katy and I just do a deep dive, and we watch everything. We had so many meetings with Conan [O’Brien] and his team. And then it’s crunch time. You know, as soon as the new year happens and the holidays are upon us, we know the Oscars are coming up. Then we’re full throttle after that.

Conan is the sort of person that’s hard to believe hasn’t hosted before. It’s the best kind of obvious choice, right? Did he need much convincing? Because taking the hosting job is a risk sometimes.

Katy Mullan: I mean, it’s one of the biggest jobs in show business, hosting the Oscars. And there have been so many incredible hosts. So, I’m sure he had to think about it long and hard. But we didn’t get to see any of that. What we got was the “Yes, I’m in.” And he was fully in from the moment he said yes. And he had ideas and passion. Like he is the real deal when it comes to commitment and putting it all out there. So, as soon as we had our first meeting, it was such a joy. We had this incredible host for a year that was actually a really interesting year for film, and it also had the wildfires in L.A. and other topical events that were happening. He just walks that tightrope so well of humor and heart, wit and warmth.We just lucked out. He was such a joy to work with. We were so happy he was our host.

Raj, you hinted at looking back at the previous years of the Oscars to see what you’ve learned. What were some of those learnings from the 96th Academy Awards that you took into the 97th that helped this be an even better show?

RK: I mean, one of them is that we had a little bit of an “eco” story. We were a little bit greener with our set, and wedecided to use a few pieces that we really loved. We loved where the orchestra was positioned, for example. That was something we wanted to continue with. We started this new tradition, which I think will probably be with the Oscars for a very long time, which we call the “Winners Walk.” We didn’t want the emotion and these winning moments to stop once people left the stage. So, we wanted to be able to see them leave the stage and walk off as we’re going to a commercial break or as we’re going through a different segment in the show. We still wanted to see what they were feeling because there’s so much emotion, and you get caught up sometimes in those words. But I think seeing those winners leaving the formal stage and coming backstage has provided a lot of value to us. We love that connecting point of seeing that human reaction and emotion that can sometimes be a little raw. We absolutely adore that. 

Then [Director] Hamish Hamilton returned when Katie and I took over the show on the 96th, and Hamish is one of our partners and friends. We love the way he captures the show. So, again, we wanted to have Hamish back, and then it was about making changes. We want to reflect on the year and the movies. We wanted to reflect on what was happening in the film community, and then we had to address the fires, which had a major impact on our show, on the community, and onthe city. And, you know, this show is in Los Angeles. This show is Hollywood. So, we absolutely had to address it in a meaningful way. We put a lot of time and thought into how we were going to do it.

Have you had serious conversations with the Academy or with ABC about canceling the Oscars in the wake of the fires? Was that ever on the table?

RK: No. Obviously, we were monitoring it, and we had a little bit of time. I think the Grammys are so much closer to when the fires were…at least the Oscars had a little bit more of a window. So, you know, we were all monitoring it, but it wasn’t really ever a discussion. One of our main points of view was that we always wanted the show to continue. We employ so many thousands of people on this show, and all the parties, and all the red carpets, and all the things that make up what the Oscars actually is… it’s some of the fabric of Los Angeles. We are some of the fabric of Hollywood. And for us to delay the show or take away people’s income and how we support this city was not necessarily ever going to be a good thing. So, as producers, we would always push to do that in the most respectful way. Obviously, we always wanted to keep safety in mind, and the Academy and the LAPD were involved. We’d always respect what was going on, but when things were more or less under control, we were very much full steam ahead.

And we’re so glad that you were. How did you come to this opening of the show to honor the wildfires with Cynthia Erivo and Ariana Grande, and more?

KM: That was all Raj’s creative mind.

RK: So, sometimes, in the midst of the fires, it was at the top of my mind. There was a night that I could not sleep. And it was like, “How are we going to do this?” We were meeting with Conan in a couple of days, and I wanted to talk about the next part of our creative process. The idea for the opening just kind of came. Throughout that night, I kept writing notes, and I felt like I cracked it.

So, it was going to be this love letter to Los Angeles. We were going to find iconic film clips that were filmed in Los Angeles that really celebrated the city, that showed these amazing locales, and maybe touched on these great moments from “Pretty Woman” to “La La Land” to all these moments that we could do as an opening film. Michael Bearden, our music director, composed the original score for the opener. We wanted to come into the room and see the orchestra live, and then it was this little story. And then, musically, we definitely had conversations with Ariana and Cynthia, but we kind of reshaped what that offer was. It was like, “Oh, don’t just come celebrate ‘Wicked.’ Come celebrate some amazing films.” I knew Ariana loved “Somewhere Over the Rainbow.” I knew Cynthia loved “Home.” Then we had what their current project is, which was “Wicked,” and that was “Defying Gravity.” You listen to all those lyrics, and it really kind of fit everything that we were trying to do and say with this really emotional music and tying “Somewhere Over the Rainbow” and “The Wizard of Oz” with “The Wiz” and then “Wicked” in this really beautiful homage to the city. And, you know, there wasn’t any real “Wizard of Oz” imagery or anything. It was all about Los Angeles, making you feel those moments and letting the music, lyrics, and performance tell the story.

I think we celebrated in a really great way, and I think we brought a lot of emotion and good vibes to the show. And it’s the first year we’ve ever had the Los Angeles Master Chorale on the show, which was also a big deal. They had actuallyrecorded that part of the soundtrack for “Wicked,” so to have them in that room, hearing all those voices… It was one of those things where the hair on your arms kind of stands up because it’s that good. Their vocal performances were just exceptional. Katie and I both watched it back last night independently, and I think it makes you a little teary-eyed because it just has that much heart to it. So, we’re both really proud of it.

It was such a great way to open the show and to honor an unfortunate situation. Another return that I was really happy about was the Fab Five style of announcing some of these nominees, and this time applied to some of the craft categories. That felt so honoring of these craftspeople. How did you come to apply that Fab Five structure to some of these craft categories?

KM: Well, it worked so well the year before, with Oscar winners speaking to the nominees. That was in the show because of the emotion of the moment. There are so many people sitting in that room. This is one of the biggest moments of their lives to have that nomination and perhaps win that award. And having somebody that you look up to talk about your work, or somebody who is close to you, talk about your work in that meaningful way amplifies that moment. 

So, we really wanted to find a way to do that again this year. We didn’t want to repeat ourselves. We wanted to build moments that honor the quieter crafts and the alchemy that happens behind the camera. To really show that, and those contributions that elevate film, taking them from good to unforgettable. And so, we were like, “Okay, let’s lean into that.” Let’s find two amazing categories where we can put stars on the stage. You can speak to how brilliant and talented these incredible people are who take these movies and make them into magic. We were so happy it worked again. And I think we’d love to continue to do it; we just need to find new ways to do it. But it works every time because having somebody speak about your work with passion is just an honor. That just feels really special on that stage.

Absolutely. I really loved that. One of the more controversial choices from this year’s show was not to have the Best Original Song nominees perform. Can you walk me through what led to that decision?

RK: Um…that was very multifaceted, I think. I mean, part of the issue with the show is always time. It’s a big show. It’s 3.5 hours, but you would be surprised at how quickly the time goes. This year, we definitely wanted to have a “Wicked“moment. There were discussions about how we might honor some of the Governor’s Awards. The Academy does so many things throughout the entire year, from the Sci-Tech Awards to the Governor’s Awards to the Academy Museum Gala. How do we make the Oscars also a celebration of some of the other work that the Academy does?

Katy and I just love to think about how we make the show different. And, we knew we wanted this big opening moment, and it really didn’t allow for us to have all five nominated songs this year. It was a byproduct of time and what we needed to cut. Also, maybe give different categories a little bit more light. Like this year, we spent a little bit more time on costume design. We actually created a really beautiful package that had never been done, one that focused on songwriters instead of the artists who were performing it. So, it’s really just about mixing things up sometimes, and I think it’s always a gift to be able to try new things. And, yeah, sometimes you get criticized for it, but sometimes they’re accepted very widely. But one of the joys of making television is that you have to take risks and try new things.

Was the decision influenced by the Best Original Song nominees themselves?

RK: No. We had pivoted from that long before that. For example, “Wicked“ would not have any songs this year, and it was such a huge musical, so we wanted to celebrate some franchises and some movies, and we wanted to have that moment. But the decision not to have original songs was made well before nominations were actually out.

So, unfortunately, we didn’t get to have some of them. We didn’t get to have our “Emilia Pérez“ moment. We didn’t get to have the Elton John and Brandi Carlile moment. But, yeah, sometimes you make decisions, and you try new things, and you want to book different artists for the show. You know, this year, our In Memoriam was a little bigger. There were so many people that we had lost, and we wanted to do that differently. So again, we had the Los Angeles Master Chorale, which was a beautiful score by Mozart. And then we had more sound-ups and a little bit more time than we’ve ever had before to have our In Memoriam moment in the show. And then we also had the Gene Hackman thing happen. So, you’re constantly adapting and changing. But we’re really grateful to the Academy and to ABC [for letting] us have some of thatcreative freedom.

Absolutely. And the show was wonderful. Clearly, both the Academy and ABC were happy with the show. I was so pleasantly surprised by the immediate announcement that you would both return to produce next year’s Oscars alongside Conan returning as host. I’m also excited because you have an opportunity that very few Oscar producers have, which is to present a brand new category to the Oscars next year: Best Casting. I’m sure you haven’t even gotten started. I know it’s very early days, but have you had any thoughts about how you might approach presenting a totallynew category to the 98th Oscars?

RK: It’s all in very early discussions right now. We’re just going to be meeting with the Academy soon. We’re going to be meeting with ABC soon. I think our first meetings are scheduled for very early in June. We’ve already had our postmortem. We know that eventually, there’s going to be a stunt category at the Oscars, as well. So, it’s kind of exciting for us to see what other disciplines and categories are going to be included in future shows.

You can follow Daniel and hear more of his thoughts on the Oscars and Film on X @howatdk

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